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TRUTHLOVER

Thinking is important but not enough!
Articles Posted: 65  Links Seeded: 1462
Member Since: 3/2008  Last Seen: 5/18/2012

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Why I Scrapped (metaphorically) the Obama Bumper Sticker off my car

Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:12 AM EST
politics, obama, taxes, middle-class, geithner, banksters, bumper-sticker, health-policy, jobs-program, aftghanistan, unemploument-insurance
By truthlover
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I just read a seed entitled I Peeled the Obama Bumper Sticker Off My Car Today.  It was a very cutesy and misleading headline (I'm not saying it violated any CoH--it was just very very well done.)  The author peeled off his 2008 bumper sticker to put on a 2012 bumper sticker.  My own experience of Obama, for whom I had campaigned as well as I could and for whom I had publicly criticized Hillary (you can check my vine history) and at whose winning I was absolutely head-over-heels with delight.... my own experience became one of growing puzzlement followed by dismay followed by the realization I'd been had.  As had many of my friends who not only campaigned for him but some of whom gave considerable amounts of money to his campaign.  

In contrast to that cutesy headline, mine is rather prosaic but absolutely true. I am going to provide the  link to when I metaphorically scrapped the Obama bumper sticker off my car. In that link I fail to mention his first choice for a cabinet position, the insider's insider,  Geithner.   I would think that everyone who is even vaguely progressive or even in favor of the Middle Class would find that choice a bit odd, don't you think? I don't mention him in what follows. Here is the public moment when I peeled off my metaphorical bumper sticker in public:

Not in my name, Mr. Compromiser-in-chief, and never again. [For a more recent seed and thread of comments about Obama, if you have lots of time you read here: Recent Gallop Poll shows Obama's Chance of Re-election Fading.)

Now I know most viners don't have the time or patience to read links like those just mentioned.  So let me briefly list a few reasons why I've given up on this guy forever:

1. He's continued the Bush II economic policies and the disastrous foreign war policies (includes getting kicked out of Iraq because of a deadline Bush II had signed and an incredibly immoral increase in drone attacks killing thousands of innocent civilians).

2. He didn't fight for the public option, against continuing the tax cuts for the rich, provide a shovel-ready jobs program (there continue to be an abundance of much needed shovel-ready jobs out there), or fight for extending the employment insurance programs.  What could I possibly mean he never fought for any of these these things?  What I mean is that during the first two years of his presidency he NEVER used the bully-pulpit by giving a speech (his one tremendous skill) from the oval office during prime time that explained and defended the public option, that said what a disaster continuing the tax cuts for the rich would be, argued for the available jobs program that would have jump-started the economy for the Middle Class, or explained, using the conclusions of a Bush II committee, why unemployment insurance was the best policy for America in purely economic terms (no tear jerking stuff about starving children at Christmas, but hard economic facts).

3. He escalated the hopelessly hopeless war in Afghanistan which had no rationale.

There's much more, of course, but I don't expect busy viners to read anymore here. 

I welcome all comment and especially  encourage comments where the commentator employs reasons and arguments, preferably against me since that makes it even more fun.  I also welcome similar comments on the position I am taking, especially those defending this position against well-argued attacks.  The reason for requesting a good defense is that I will only have a very limited time to engage in this discussion.

I will enforce the CoH.  So please, no insulting remarks.  Thanks in advance.

 

 

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  • Public Discussion (118)
truthlover

I welcome all comments, will delete pure name-calling, appreciate arguments on either side, and urge you to vote this article up the vine since that will invite more folks and enrich the conversation.

  • 8 votes
#1 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:18 AM EST
MDC-441879

It's early and I just poured my first cup of coffee so I'm going to make this short.

Teapuplicans have been screaming since the day he took the oath of office and the far right in congress have joined them in their insanity. In other words, the party of NO. They have tried to stop and kill any and all proposals put forth by the left with every dirty trick and lie possible.

I'm not so disappointed with Obama as much as I'm aggravated with the obstructionists on the right. A majority of us sent him there with an agenda and the right said "NO" with no regard for the country and it's future.

Besides, do really want one of those four idiots on the right.

  • 20 votes
#1.1 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:20 AM EST
Robert in Ohio

MDC

A small point of fact for you

The Tea Party did not exist when Pres Obama took office so they were not screaming anything on inauguration day.

CNBC's Rick Santelli is widely credited with launching the grassroots movement. While standing on the floor of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange on February 19, 2009

Read more: History of the Tea Party Movement — Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/us/government/tea-party-history.html#ixzz1mH03yyV9

And it did not become a wide ranging, influential movement for many months after that

Maybe the ultimate candidate for the Republicans is not among the four gentlemen that you disparage

I am disappointed with the Congress and with Pres Obama's leadership (lack of) in getting the opposing factions to work together. Everything has been wedge issues and some of those are the fault of the Republicans and some of the blame falls back to the president's leadership.

Pres Clinton led the nation (with a Republican Senate and House) and got significant things done, including a balanced budget, so it seems that it can be done.

  • 18 votes
#1.2 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:47 AM EST
truthlover

MDC-441879, thank you for your comment. I had another reply in mind, which I thought was in my piece but will repeat here, but I think it Robert in Ohio's point is exceedingly well taken and one that I have just learned from.

Adding to Robert in Ohio's point, which kinda blew me away (in a good way), let me repeat some of what I said in the article but in a fuller way.

He didn't fight for the public option, against continuing the tax cuts for the rich, provide a shovel-ready jobs program (there continue to be an abundance of much needed shovel-ready jobs out there), or fight for extending the employment insurance programs. What could I possibly mean he never fought for any of these these things? What I mean is that during the first two years of his presidency he NEVER used the bully-pulpit by giving a speech (his one tremendous skill) from the oval office during prime time that explained and defended the public option, that said what a disaster continuing the tax cuts for the rich would be, argued for the available jobs program that would have jump-started the economy for the Middle Class, or explained, using the conclusions of a Bush II committee, why unemployment insurance was the best policy for America in purely economic terms (no tear jerking stuff about starving children at Christmas, but hard economic facts).

It's not that he might have lost had he used the true facts and his oratory during prime time from the oval office that completely turns me off, it's that OBAMA DID NOT TRY. He was, as I think Krugman said (it might have been another once pro-Obama op-ed writer), Obama was MIA. He didn't even try to fight for us. That's my deepest complaint and disappointment.

  • 13 votes
#1.3 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:56 AM EST
truthlover

Robert in Ohio, thank you for a brilliant comment. That never had crossed my mind. So here's Obama, no crazy Teapublicans saying no, with a Democratic House and Senate, not fighting for us but instead caving into the Insurance Industry, the financial industry (e.g. Goldman Sachs), the banksters, and, of course, the military-industrial establishment.

Thanks again for a brilliant comment.

  • 12 votes
#1.4 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:02 AM EST
truthlover

MDC-44187, I just realized I forgot your question:"do I want one of those four idiots on the right?"

Answer One: probably not but, frankly, I'm not going to vote for a fourth term for Bush II in the disguise of an Obama.

Second answer: when we see who emerges as Obama alternatives--and don't rule out a strong Third Party candidate--then we can talk about it.

Third answer: if it is Obama versus no one I can vote for who has a chance at the presidency, I either won't vote at all or will vote for someone with a good platform even if he/she could not possibly win.

  • 13 votes
#1.5 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:07 AM EST
knightofdespair

I agree with you, but all of the republican options are far worse...

  • 3 votes
#1.6 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:45 AM EST
Robert in Ohio

truthlover

Thanks for the feedback and for your perspective on this issue

I agree with the majority of the points yo make

I also think that we may not know who the Republican alternative is until the last day of the Republican convention, as I expect a "draft someone" movement at the convention regardless of how the primaries play out leading up to the convention.

  • 11 votes
#1.7 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:02 AM EST
Bart GruzalskiDeleted
Robert in Ohio

BArt

You hit the nail on the head

It is supposed to be about getting the best candidate (and ticket together) an d not about meeting TV and media deadlines.

I look forward to a fierce battle at the convention especially if Santorum and Paul continue to pile up delegates and some states send uncommitted delegates to the convention.

I totally agree that political theater seems more important than substance in more ways than one these days

Thanks for the feedback

  • 6 votes
#1.9 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:12 PM EST
Daniel A. Hallo

Don’t you just love these fabricated anecdotal articles by conservatives pretending to by former Obama supporters to help give them the facade of credibility?

  • 5 votes
#1.10 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:17 PM EST
Boudicea

Daniel - and exactly HOW do you know this person was "pretending?" Crystal ball maybe?

  • 5 votes
#1.11 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:19 PM EST
Citizen Kane-473667

I can testify to some very heated exchanges between me and truthlover in the early part of Obama's administration. I wasn't the one supporting him so I guess you know who was now don't you Daniel.

  • 8 votes
#1.12 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:29 PM EST
spankola

You are suffering from the "Knight in Shining Armour Syndrome", most common in adolescent and young adult women. Based on the concept that it is a scary, threating and unfair world and in order to survive a single savior will by chance come along and all you have to do is hitch your wagon to him and he will whisk you away to a better world.

IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN! You set yourself up for a big fall(the syndrome). Get over it! Do not be a chronic sufferer.

You need to work for it. You need to do what it takes to partner up with an honest person and support them your partner needs you as much as you need them. President Obama needs you.

When the 2010 midterms rolled around the haters were fired up and elected a bunch of Fox news/Koch Bros. Tea Puppets. Obama supporters expected too much, too fast and stayed home like a bunch of cry babies, instead of a strong follow through at the midterm polls.

Your whiny 1. 2. 3. account of Obama's first term never mentions his tremendous achievements in spite of the loss of Control of the House in the midterms(where were you?)

Do not be whiners! Be winners.

You shoot yourself in the foot when you write an article like this pity party dribble.

I think you needed this SPANKING!

  • 4 votes
#1.13 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:38 PM EST
Citizen Kane-473667

Your whiny 1. 2. 3. account of Obama's first term never mentions his tremendous achievements in spite of the loss of Control of the House in the midterms(where were you?)

Apologist much? Or do you deny your own comment that he had two years of Democratic controlled Congress he wasted on bailing out banks and criminalizing poor people without healthcare?

  • 6 votes
#1.14 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:50 PM EST
madvargr

I guess you missed the 350+ bills passed by Pelosi's House that died on the floor of the Senate thanks to endless GOP filibusters.

If you're not going to be part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

Obama 2012

  • 6 votes
#1.15 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:55 PM EST
Boudicea

madvargr - just curious - WHAT 350 issues could be so very important that they had to be passed in the first place? I personally think that the GOP did some good work in STOPPING more legislation from being passed. Not every damned thing needs to be legislated.

  • 6 votes
#1.16 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:57 PM EST
Citizen Kane-473667

But, but, but but, you said HE HAD CONTROL! Everything good that came out of Congress was all because HE DID IT! Now you want to claim he had no control?

Oh I get it; if you see something good--Obama did it!

If you see something bad--Bush did it!

Congress didn't sign off on unfunded wars or repeal Glass/Stegal or loosen the requirements on loans, etc., etc., etc....

PUHLEEZE!

  • 5 votes
#1.17 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:05 PM EST
UNA_Lion

It's called selective vision, a condition rampant among partisan extremists, along with those who buy completely into cult of personality.

  • 5 votes
#1.18 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:09 PM EST
truthlover

Daniel A. Hallo, I will make the gracious assumption that you are out of sorts and not doing well today. Looking at your own page you obviously are a serious viner and have an article about truthfulness and respect... a confused clip on a topic I've covered and you would see if you looked at the group Oligarchy (we are an oligarchy that functions through a corporatocary... the word plutocracy misses the main point) ... a very nice cllip on patriotic billionaires urging higher taxes for the rich... so I'd say we generally see issues from a similar perspective.

So why the insult?

Don’t you just love these fabricated anecdotal articles by conservatives pretending to by former Obama supporters to help give them the facade of credibility?

Why noit take the time to discover that I was an Obama supporter and a huge critic of Sarah Palin and McCain (Sarah was the better target)? Is it laziness? Orneriness? Just prefer throwing out insults that might be fully unfounded? From your page one would expect much more.

So, assuming you won't do this, if I have a chance to find a few I'll post them below. I will assume you woke up on the wrong side. Every other assumption is a bit insulting to you.

  • 8 votes
#1.19 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:31 PM EST
spankola

There is a lot of selectivity going on here, especially the seeder.

'The Affordable Health Care for America Act' was a compromise that improved the lives of every American.

Granted it could have been made better but the billions of dollars spent by the Insurance lobby, daily distortions by Fox News, the rabid Obama haters, the Koch brothers... and all the others that care not for the United States but only their failed Ideology.

They wanted failure of health care reform. They offered no alternitive only a NO vote.

They wanted failure of the economy. They offered no alternative only a NO vote.

The right wing promoted hate and fear that escalated to the incident in AZ before they slowed a little and now that the 2012 election in full swing they are escalating the fear and hate campaign.

Republican Distortions and lies like headless bodies in the desert, death panels, trickle down economics, birtherism, class warfare, distructive worker laws... on and on and on; these are the only things they have produced. The Iraq War was not the begining or the end to their lies.

Stop being duped by right wing propaganda. Rail against it. Do not just sit there and shake your head.

Name on thing the Wingers have been honest or even accidentally correct on. NOTHING!

  • 5 votes
#1.20 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:38 PM EST
UNA_Lion

spankola, what I care about is our crushing debt.

Tell us: What is Mr. Obama's plan to deal with it, other than targeting only the rich with tax increases (which he knows good and well the GOP, and some members of his own party, will oppose without their own concessions attached), issuing political talking points, and other political theatrics/grand-standing (at which he excels)?

Before you knee-jerk and point out that the GOP front-runners don't have a plan either, I know that already, which is why my vote is going only to Dr. Paul.

Or will you assert that the national debt isn't a problem at all?

  • 4 votes
#1.21 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:44 PM EST
Boudicea

@1.20 - what makes you so sure that there was no Republican alternative offered because they DID NOT want those things? Don't be so quick to judge. If you ask me whether I want chocolate ice cream and I don't want ANY ice cream, I'm not gonna offer to take vanilla.

And NOBODY is wrong 100% of the time. I do, however, have an inkling that you're not gonna go for facts, so this is probably just a waste of my time.

  • 5 votes
#1.22 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:54 PM EST
truthlover

Daniel A. Hallo,

There's more if you want to find them. Some articles I wrote, for example. But assuming you're having a bad hair day, here's a list of only some:

Aug 3, 2008, seed:

http://truthlover.newsvine.com/_news/2008/08/03/1717367-mccain-picks-head-strategist-from-the-rove-era-and-endorses-negative-campaign

October 1, seed:

http://truthlover.newsvine.com/_news/2008/10/01/1939145-sarah-palin-pushing-women-back-into-sexist-stereotypic-roles

Oct 14, seed

http://truthlover.newsvine.com/_news/2008/10/14/1995922-pamela-anderson-i-cant-stand-gop-vice-president-nominee-sarah-palin-palin-can-suck-it

Oct 22, seed:

http://truthlover.newsvine.com/_news/2008/10/23/2030574-the-150000-shopping-spree-kills-sarah-palins-ah-shucks-friend-of-the-working-class-image

Oct 23, seed:

http://truthlover.newsvine.com/_news/2008/10/24/2034824-former-bush-spokesman-scott-mccellen-backs-obama

Oct 25, seed:

http://truthlover.newsvine.com/_news/2008/10/25/2039165-big-name-republicans-who-abandoned-palinmccain-and-now-support-obama-continue-to-increase

Oct 26, seed:

http://truthlover.newsvine.com/_news/2008/10/26/2042283-gop-candidates-mccain-and-palin-out-of-touch-with-common-folk

Oct 28, seed:

http://truthlover.newsvine.com/_news/2008/10/29/2052433-outsider-palin-was-very-much-an-insider-pick-for-vp

Oct 29, seed:

http://truthlover.newsvine.com/_news/2008/10/30/2054973-obamas-31-second-spot-on-mccains-choice-of-a-vp-who-can-inform-mccain-on-economic-issues

Oct 31, seed:

http://truthlover.newsvine.com/_news/2008/10/31/2058598-poll-finds-growing-doubts-about-palin-take-their-toll

Nov 1, seed:

http://truthlover.newsvine.com/_news/2008/11/01/2063305-palin-falls-prey-to-canadian-prankster-and-she-says-it-would-be-fun-to-hunt-baby-seals

Nov 3, seed:

http://truthlover.newsvine.com/_news/2008/11/03/2066396-obama-leads-in-6-of-8-key-states

Nov 3 seed (especially fun):

http://truthlover.newsvine.com/_news/2008/11/03/2068900-audio-of-entire-prank-call-between-sarah-palin-and-comedian-playing-sarkozy

Nov 4, seed:

http://truthlover.newsvine.com/_news/2008/11/04/2072571-actor-tim-robbins-fights-for-right-to-vote-after-being-kicked-off-voting-rolls

Nov 9, seed:

http://truthlover.newsvine.com/_news/2008/11/09/2092060-it-still-looks-good-almost-a-week-later

I do think an "oh, I'm sorry" would be appropriate and respectful, don't you?

  • 8 votes
#1.23 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:02 PM EST
UNA_Lion

By the way, Mr. Obama released his budget plan, and independent deficit hawks said the plan doesn't go far enough:

"While his budget stabilizes debt over the next decade, the real problem arrives thereafter, as entitlement costs spiral out of control and revenues are inadequate to deal with a wave of retiring baby boomers," former White House budget office director Alice Rivlin and former Senate Budget chairman Pete Domenici said in a statement."

So we can see that Mr. Obama still isn't making the hard choices, but then again it's election season and he doesn't want to turn off the millions of voters who rely on the very programs that are tearing down our nation through staggering deficits.

  • 5 votes
#1.24 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:03 AM EST
Daniel A. Hallo

What the @!$%# has Obama done so far?

  • 2 votes
#1.25 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:20 AM EST
truthlover

Daniel Hallo, was that a sly apology to your off-the-cuff insult that I had not been a real Obama supporter?

If It looked like it was maybe a link but it didn't link to anything. I suspected that foolish list Obamites keep putting on comments to make us believe Obama IS an action figure. Since it wasn't a viable link, and from looking at your column, I'm going to assume you would be above such trite re=iterations and, instead, take it as a sly apology--you old fox you.

I look forward to further respectful dialogue.

  • 5 votes
#1.26 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:29 PM EST
truthlover

UNA_LION, a remarkable comment which seems to miss much of the reality of our situation.

You "conclude" (I didn't detect an argument but that's okay):

but then again it's election season and he doesn't want to turn off the millions of voters who rely on the very programs that are tearing down our nation through staggering deficits.

If Obama had the courage to withdraw from these military adventures in Afghanistan, Yemen, Pakistan... if Obama had the courage to close almost all of our overseas bases.... if Obama had the stomach to raise taxes on the rich... if Obama had the integrity to go after some of the fraudulent banksters who run his economic programs (Geithner and all his cronies)... if Obama had the wisdom to have created a huge jobs program to rebuild our crumbling infrastructures.... there'd be no problem. You don't have to strip the poorest Americans of their mediocre safety net to get this nation on the right tract financially.

To those who think that my suggestion about bringing troops home and closing bases is just going to weaken our national security, please watch this brief 3 minute 11 second video.

  • 4 votes
#1.27 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:40 PM EST
UNA_Lion

Defense spending definitely needs to be cut, but we also have to streamline the other spending programs. Look at the largest budget items here. The issue I have with both the GOP and the Democrats is that each is willing to snipe at the opposing party's favorite spending programs, but neither is willing to make necessary cuts across the board.

It's like their saying, "Go take a piece of his pie, but touch mine and you're dead!"

  • 5 votes
#1.28 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:59 PM EST
tobiii

neither is willing to make necessary cuts across the board.

Couldn't agree more, UNA.

  • 1 vote
#1.29 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:16 PM EST
Daniel A. Hallo

Daniel Hallo, was that a sly apology to your off-the-cuff insult that I had not been a real Obama supporter?

Nothing sly about it, you have never supported Obama.

  • 3 votes
#1.30 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:12 PM EST
Oiled Pelican

Daniel Hallo, you are clearly unable to read (which might be the truth). I'm checking on truthlover's stuff cause he is currently banned or something. I hope he'll let me know when he knows what, why, and when he'll be back.

Why are you apparently lying? Did you read the long list of articles he posted at 1.23 that go back to both before and after the election and where he was arguing against Obama's opponents, for Obama, or celebrating Obama's victory? There's more seeds there than you've done from your couch-potato throne since November 19, 2010.

Maybe someone more versed in this stuff can publish on here whether this counts for trolling--out and out lying without any foundation of vinership.

  • 5 votes
#1.31 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:06 AM EST
Daniel A. Hallo

Sorry, but no. Being against Palin and MacCane is not being pro Democrat or for Obama.

And as for Obama’s compromising on some things when he had a gun to his head, not to let Ameica go bankrupt and not pay its debts or help the unemployed by a radical bunch or reactionaries that infiltrated the GOP just to get something done for America and steer us out of the ditch, damn him to hell for that…. what crap!

Anyone who is paying attention to a congress that has lower poll numbers then Nixion knows who is to blame here.

  • 3 votes
#1.32 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:29 PM EST
Daniel A. Hallo

Don’t link to the articles, link to the comments that show you supported Obama TL.

I can’t find any.

  • 1 vote
#1.33 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:34 PM EST
Daniel A. Hallo

Maybe someone more versed in this stuff can publish on here whether this counts for trolling--out and out lying without any foundation of vinership.

TL claims to have supported and voted for Obama but now has had a change of heart. This is the bases of the article here and he has not given any valid evidence to support that claim.

You want to accuse me directly of being a troll and lair and not just use innuendo! Then show show guts and say it. Either way, that is a COH viloaltion.

  • 2 votes
#1.34 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:55 PM EST
Boudicea

Daniel - why don't you just drop it? DeRailing this article isn't accomplishing much - since the rest of us here BELIEVE THE AUTHOR and not you.

  • 3 votes
#1.35 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:37 PM EST
Daniel A. Hallo

Daniel - why don't you just drop it? DeRailing this article isn't accomplishing much - since the rest of us here BELIEVE THE AUTHOR and not you.

Good job...Perfect example of an "argumentum ad populum (Latin: "appeal to the people"), in logic, is a fallacious argument that concludes a proposition to be true because many or all people believe it; it alleges that; "If many believe so, it is so." In ethics this argument is stated, "If many find it acceptable, it is acceptable."

Exposing an article that is based upon a completely untrue premiss that is made only to establish a facade of credibility is a moral imperative.

  • 3 votes
#1.36 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:08 PM EST
Boudicea

Ok, whatever.

)(@#&%(*!&%)(# ()#*&*$&! (*@&$#( - ( Vulcan. Translation - the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one.) the "many" understand that the basic premise of this writer is based on his personal experiences. the "one" (you) can't accept the premise so you must try to derail.

LOL!

  • 4 votes
#1.37 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:30 PM EST
Daniel A. Hallo

Not being an idiot I can’t accept any false premiss… how funny is that?

  • 1 vote
#1.38 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:39 PM EST
Robert in Ohio

Boudicea

Dowser came up with a new symbol for frustrating times

(..)

It can be helpful in situations like this

Check it out at

http://m.static.newsvine.com/servista/imagesizer?file=mtmeyer10F063AEC-1AD8-EF9D-F889-FE66BE977395.jpg&width=380

  • 4 votes
#1.39 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:42 PM EST
Citizen Kane-473667

(..) !!!!

  • 3 votes
#1.40 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:37 PM EST
Reply
Robert in Ohio

truthlover

A well reasoned portrayal of your position, bravo!

I agree with your perception of the president's actions on the issues and policies that you mentioned.

I was not a supporter in 2008 (and am not now), but would offer that doing what is politically expedient rather than what is right is not something that has not been done before. The continual din from the Obama administration about doing things differently while they did more of the same has worn a lot of people down in their level of support.

Good article thanks

  • 14 votes
#2 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:08 AM EST
spankola

Yes, the people who support the right wing are very happy you have lost you fortitude.

And when it comes to voting, the right wing is better at voting against someone. With their fear and hate, you can not beat them away from the polls.

Their coming. They will be there. Holding their nose while they cast their vote for one of the Republican Clownidates just as long as Obama loses.

  • 1 vote
#2.1 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:02 PM EST
Boudicea

so the repubs have "fear and hate" and the dems have "charity and love" right? The dems love to give tax dollars away to those who support them. WTF is the difference?

  • 4 votes
#2.2 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:36 PM EST
Robert in Ohio

spankola

While your post makes little real sense, I can tell you that I have not lost my "fortitude" and I can also tell you that I base my voting decision on reasoned research into policies and positions and not on the party affiliation of a candidate.

It is the honest approach to choosing the right person for the job, you should try it.

I have not and will not vote against someone, I vote for the candidate that I think is best for the job regardless of party affiliation.

  • 4 votes
#2.3 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:07 PM EST
spankola

I was not speaking to you. I was reply/remarking to your comment but speaking to the seeder.

It makes perfect sense to everyone but you. The republicans want Obama to lose more than they want any of their candidates to win.

And even more they want him to FAIL. That is an admitted fact. The right wing are obstructionists just for that purpose: FAILURE OF OF PRESIDENT IS THEIR ONLY GOAL NO MATTER WHAT THE COST TO THE COUNTRY.

Voter turn out was way down in the midterms after a record breaking turn out in 2008.

Right wing lies and deceit does not work on me. But some of these weak kneed Dems I have put up with is ridiculous. You know what I am talking about. Most dems are lazy and apathetic. Their heart is in the right place, now only if I could get their butts in the right place in November.

  • 2 votes
#2.4 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:05 PM EST
Robert in Ohio

spankola

If you want to address the seeder, you enter a new comment rather than respond to another comment.

But that is neither here nor there

In order for you to know

The republicans want Obama to lose more than they want any of their candidates to win.

you would have had to speak with each and every Republican in the country. Have you really done that? If not you are making an unsupported generalization.

The stated goal was to make him a one term president, that is quite a distance from making him fail as the president of the U.S. You should be able to discern that difference.

The only chance Pres Obama has for reelection IMO is a huge turnout again and even then it will be close.

I know many democrats and none of them are as you describe (lazy and apathetic), perhaps you need a new group of people to hang around with.

  • 3 votes
#2.5 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:59 PM EST
spankola

Thanks for your help. Here is one for you: oppositional disorder is treatable.

More advise for you: Obama will take Ohio in a landslide. Seek high ground.

The only chance Pres Obama has for reelection IMO is a huge turnout again and even then it will be close.

So you do agree with me. BTW, the GOP voter suppression will try to steal the election but it will bring out more voters.

  • 1 vote
#2.6 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:05 PM EST
Robert in Ohio

Spankola

Persona attacks are emblematic of those with little to add to the debate itself

There will be no landslide in Ohio (or anywhere else), Pres Obama may indeed win but it will be close in Ohio and in the other swing states as well.

I do not agree that anyone is trying to steal an election and I expect turnout in Nov to be a cirtical issue in the outcome. Many experts think Pres Obama will benefit from a large turnout so that may be the key in Ohio and elsewhere.

  • 4 votes
#2.7 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 10:22 AM EST
Bart GruzalskiDeleted
Robert in Ohio

Bart

Good points, IMO there is nothing more important in our country than "of the people, by the people, for the people".

I also think the Occupy message is important and initially it was on target, but the theater and antics of the groups around the country have taken center stage and overshadowed the message, which is too bad

  • 5 votes
#2.9 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:13 AM EST
Oiled Pelican

As a vine "student" under Bart Gruzalski, let me address some of the stuff above.

First, though, I wonder why Bart's comment above was deleted? Did you think it was a violation Robert in Ohio? He's currently banned. I don't get it. Anyway, I'm here to try to be a substitute and I think I'll do okay against the likes of what I've just read above.

Since I'm new at some of this, I'll take them one at a time. That's for supporting truthlover, Robert.

  • 2 votes
#2.10 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:13 AM EST
Oiled Pelican

spankola,

You wrote, apparently to truthlover (as you claim in 2.4). the following:

Yes, the people who support the right wing are very happy you have lost you fortitude.

And when it comes to voting, the right wing is better at voting against someone. With their fear and hate, you can not beat them away from the polls.

Their coming. They will be there. Holding their nose while they cast their vote for one of the Republican Clownidates just as long as Obama loses.

I believe truthlover would say: so what? He's not going to vote for a Bush II just because he's got a different name. Obama's policies are a continuation of the worst policies of Bush II: it's in the article. Have you read it?

He would also say, I think, that it is you who are attached to a side regardless of the policies of the candidate as long as that candidate is a Democrat named Obama. Isn't that a bit mindless?

  • 4 votes
#2.11 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:20 AM EST
Oiled Pelican

spankola,

The rest of your comments seem to be making predictions about Obama winning in places. You have no evidence for this. Evidence, in fact, is beginning to emerge on the other side. Did you read the Gallop Poll that predicted Obama would lose the presidency? Yes? No?

  • 4 votes
#2.12 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:23 AM EST
Robert in Ohio

OIled

I had no problem with the comment and in fact think that no comments should be deleted or collapsed unless they are completely a personal attack or other significant violation of the COH

  • 3 votes
#2.13 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:54 AM EST
mstanley2265

Robert, Bart's account page is gone too. maybe a rereg?

  • 1 vote
#2.14 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:16 PM EST
Robert in Ohio

mstanley

Maybe so

Thanks for the heads up

  • 2 votes
#2.15 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:51 PM EST
mstanley2265

When a bunch of comments from same person get deleted usually a rereg.

  • 1 vote
#2.16 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:02 PM EST
Reply
Sparrow-2863685

I wasn't quite as excited as you seemed to be about Obama '08, but I did vote for him and I feel your pain. He's quite a speaker, but his actions speak much louder and are contrary to the kind of change he promised. Obama, Romney, Santorum and Gingrich are all in favor of enslaving us, physically and morally. No thank you!

I'm still looking for hope and change and I'm voting Ron Paul (sorry I listened to the MSM's spin of "no chance to win" last time, won't make that mistake again).

  • 13 votes
Reply#3 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:17 AM EST
Citizen Kane-473667

Uh oh! You metioned the name of "He Who Must Be Ignored and Minimalized At All Costs".

You must be a closet Racist! /s

  • 11 votes
#3.1 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:27 AM EST
UNA_Lion

I'm still looking for hope and change and I'm voting Ron Paul (sorry I listened to the MSM's spin of "no chance to win" last time, won't make that mistake again).

Expect now to be ostricised and demonized for such a statement. Dr. Paul has few friends within the establishment.

  • 11 votes
#3.2 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:49 AM EST
Bart GruzalskiDeleted
knightofdespair

We were already in Afghanistan, and the reasons to be there were better than the no reason to be in Iraq... But yes I agree that his financial guru's are part of the problem and show a distinct lack of change... And I am less enthusiastic about him as time goes on but at least he isn't publically against the middle class like most of the right wing.

  • 8 votes
#3.4 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:55 AM EST
Bart GruzalskiDeleted
knightofdespair

First, just because we already were in Afghanistan is no reason he had to make it worse--lives and wealth wasted (unless you are part of the military-industrial complex which makes money in every war).

Agreed, but you can't just instantly teleport everyone out and not expect the country to collapse where you were, he set a plan to withdraw and he did so, it wasn't the greatest but it is not very realistic to expect much better than what he did.

Have you seen the Academy Winning Documentary "Inside Job"? Here's a link to a 2 minute 12 second traitor: here. You can't walk away from watching "Inside Job" and think that Geithner and Obama aren't part of it. The evidence is overwhelming.

Full agreement there, he really hasn't done nearly enough to address economic, job, and healthcare problems.

  • 4 votes
#3.6 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:33 PM EST
truthlover

And he hasn't done anything to prosecute those who have committed fraud. Nothing. that says a lot. The conclusion should not be hard to realize.

  • 5 votes
#3.7 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:01 PM EST
tobiii

We were already in Afghanistan, and the reasons to be there were better than the no reason to be in Iraq

Question for ya, knight -

Why are we still in Bosnia and Kosovo - SIXTEEN YEARS after Clinton sent the first troops?

Notice how that has magically "disappeared" off the radar?

  • 2 votes
#3.8 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:10 PM EST
spankola

And he hasn't done anything to prosecute those who have committed fraud. Nothing. that says a lot. The conclusion should not be hard to realize.

Read up. It was all over the news. Not only is it being done it will be the most wide spead criminal investigation in history. First he extracted a settlement from the mortgage companies that does not let them off the hook on an individual basis.

Do not forget that much of the wrong doing got a green light from GOP deregulation. So, it was wrong but not illegal thanks to the Republicans.

I am beginning to doubt your sincerity.

  • 2 votes
#3.9 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:20 PM EST
Oiled Pelican

Why were Bart's comments above at 3.3 and 3.5 deleted? Who's pulling strings here?

UNA_Lion, I believe one of these deleted posts was in favor of Ron Paul. Sounds like Ron Paul has few friends in the establishment of the Vine. I suspect, since he's been sending this around to his friends, that he might have posted this incredible video explaining terrorism in a way that the establishment doesn't like. Hmmm.... I wonder. Check out the video. It's impressive and only 3 minutes and 12 second.

  • 4 votes
#3.10 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:29 AM EST
UNA_Lion

Yeah, that video is a pretty good analogy for Iraq. Served two years over there, and the insurgents were pretty active. The video is a bit simplistic, in that the insurgents in Iraq (specifically AQI) were pretty indiscriminate about killing Iraqis - they usually targeted Shi'a Muslims and Sunni Muslims who resisted them. Even so, there were multiple insurgent groups who fit the profile of the video.

  • 1 vote
#3.11 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:03 AM EST
Reply
Dean Moriarty

Throw the bum out. Fifteen trillion in debt and in his latest budget proposal he would like to dig the hole 1.33 trillion deeper.

  • 11 votes
Reply#4 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:40 AM EST
spankola

You the fifteen trillion is inflated and exists do to tax cuts and waging war as well as the housing fiasco. All due to the Bush administration and Republican lies, pandering to wealthy donors and deregulation.

  • 1 vote
#4.1 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:22 PM EST
Citizen Kane-473667

Wouldn't those be the Obama Tax Cuts now? Just like it is now the Obama Patriot Act extensions. Or did Bush sneak in the Oval Office while he was out and forge Obama's signature to them???

  • 5 votes
#4.2 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:27 PM EST
Oiled Pelican

Citizen Kane, maybe you've got to be careful what you post here. But I'm confident what you suggest Bush didn't have to sneak in at all. Obams's "one of them." And like Bush and Cheney before him, I'm sure Obama doesn't like the video I posted above as well as here.

  • 3 votes
#4.3 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:32 AM EST
Citizen Kane-473667

I actually look forward to that commercial hitting the airwaves during the election cycle across the country. Too many people just can't see the opposite view of these countries citizens and what has caused them to take up arms against the U.S.

we should lead by example--not by force of arms. Kind of hard to do though when your government is so corrupted by monied influence that your "democracy" has become a world-wide joke...

  • 1 vote
#4.4 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:30 AM EST
Reply
UNA_Lion

In contrast to that cutesy headline, mine is rather prosaic but absolutely true. I am going to provide the link to when I metaphorically scrapped the Obama bumper sticker off my car.

Well, since your article isn't hard-core pro-Obama, you'll not receive the hundred plus votes that other seed did here on a NV jam-packed with those who would defend the man if he gunned down their own children in broad daylight. Even so, I gave it a vote.

  • 11 votes
Reply#5 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:58 AM EST
truthlover

Yeah, UNA_Lion, I've seen that. I used to have these Obamites attack me en masse. Now I suspect they can't hold a torch in the face of reason so they just disappear.

By the way, a lot of those Obamites are volunteers and even staffers who want to make Obama look like a winner or at least like he can win the election. There's all whistling "Dixie." (For those who might think this is racist slur, "whistling 'Dixie'" means the same thing as "whistling in the dark" (oh my, even that can be misinterpreted!).

My main point is that many of the pro-Obama folk will jump on an article in the first half hour or so which suggests they communicate to each other and then jump in with the standard Obamite exaggerations and falsehoods or sly comments to throw the thread off track..

  • 9 votes
#5.1 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:56 AM EST
Reply
AmericanMOM-598098

Not only has President Obama been a disappointment, but also the Democrats in the House and Senate. It all comes down to the influence of wealth and power threatening to withdraw their support for their campaigns, threatening to move their business to another country, or threatening the well-being of an established portion of our society. How can we have change for the better take place when the same people involved in establishing policies and legislation, that led to these situations, are still in office? The very same players that, over many years, have constructed the massive military complex which feeds taxpayer money to military contractors, allowed the banking and financial industry to run amok like a bunch of barbarians in designer suits, and constructed scenarios to instill fear and paranoia to justify war. How can these people not realize that Americans have more access to information and education than ever before, and we are not limited to the media they control? The number of elected officials that have not "sold their souls" to wealth and influence are few. Maybe it is time we insist on better choices. After all, we are supposed to be the ones to determine what role government plays in our lives and who speaks for us. Why are we leaving this up to them?

  • 6 votes
Reply#6 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:53 AM EST
truthlover

American, I couldn't agree more. That's why I started the Oligarchy group. Please join us.

The OWS movement is an expression of our group frustration.

I am hoping that a particular candidate can pick up some steam but I've heard nothing in almost two weeks. The Establishment would certainly like to see his campaign die immediately so maybe it has. I dearly hope not.

  • 6 votes
#6.1 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:49 AM EST
Blog of A Cowboy

Wel I support the youthful dissent represented by Occupy but the inclination to abandon pragmatic political battles - because they are so distastetful and the result is never the perfect outcome always promised in the campaign ads - is really just a form of quitting.

It is a savage tough evil dark-of-night world out there kids. Doing nothing (literally doing nothing in those OWS protests) won't stop the American Taliban of Christian tyrants and the "New Russia" corporate aparatchiks from forcing a historically repetitive destruction ism of ultra conservative monopartisan rule-of-law down the throats of America's future generation.

  • 2 votes
#6.2 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:06 PM EST
Reply
Boudicea

Interesting read, truthlover. I think the bottom line is not very difficult to discern - Obama is weak. He had no real time to make close alliances in Congress while he was there and his entire presidential agenda seems to me to have been doing exactly what needed to be done to remain President. Even his SOTU addresses have been more Campaign Speeches than anything else.

Robert makes an excellent point about Clinton. He worked with an adversarial congress to get things done.

Obama is more like a spoiled child who believes that his way is the ONLY way - blames others when things don't work out the way he wants and stomps his feet and goes home. He is a weak - very weak - compromisor who knows how to speak in public. That's his only real strength. I have no respect for the man - who seems to not understand that the Executive is but one of 3 branches of government.

  • 11 votes
Reply#7 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:55 AM EST
truthlover

Boudicea, are you on the money! There was a seed out there which I remember seeing but can't find it. It ws about how Obama limited his evenings "out" doing the work expected of a president because he was committed to spending at least two (maybe it was more) evenings a week at home for supper. There's nothing unreasonable about his but it might be a bit unreasonable for a new president who was never in DC that much to stick to such a rule when he could have been meeting colleagues on the Hill.

If anyone can link to the seed or artillery, please do.

  • 6 votes
#7.1 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:06 PM EST
Citizen Kane-473667

Every time someone mentions the SOTU address and Obama in the same sentence, my mind confuses the letters with STFU...

  • 5 votes
#7.2 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:44 PM EST
Boudicea

LOL

  • 5 votes
#7.3 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:48 PM EST
Reply
DrBrooks

Truthlover,

Great article. I appreciate your perspective. I am still an undecided voter. I find myself getting more and more discouraged as I research the candidates. I do not even know if I am a liberal or conservative any more. All I know is that I am against wars without prior attempts at negotiation, the military industrial complex, and have deep concerns about the economy. I abhor dishonest politicians who make promises with no intention of keeping them - there is corruption on both sides of the isle. I may end up having to write a name in!

  • 6 votes
Reply#8 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:06 AM EST
Citizen Kane-473667

Believe it or not, Mickey Mouse gets votes and is even registered to vote!

  • 5 votes
#8.1 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:48 PM EST
Bart GruzalskiDeleted
DrBrooks

Thanks, Bart. I have read very little about him. I do like that he is against war and interested in growing jobs in America, and will look into his positions on other issues.

I know that I will not find a candidate that I am in 100% in alignment with. Right now I would settle on a handful of issues! I also do not mind waiting and watching on the sidelines until October or November as so much can happen between now and then.

  • 2 votes
#8.3 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:35 PM EST
Oiled Pelican

Why was Bart's comment at 8.2 deleted? Did anyone see anything odd about it? I can't imagine what he might have said so I can't pretend to fill in the blanks. Obviously he's upset someone on this threat or one of the Obamites close to the Vine hierarchy.

  • 3 votes
#8.4 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:36 AM EST
Citizen Kane-473667

When a user gets banned, their account is deleted taking all comments/articles/seeds with it.

  • 2 votes
#8.5 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:32 AM EST
Reply
tyler-1708225

Great article.

  • 5 votes
Reply#9 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:22 AM EST
coloradoan-1141358

Enjoyed the article and voted way up!

  • 6 votes
Reply#10 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:35 AM EST
magnoliaave

Fantastic!

  • 4 votes
Reply#11 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:10 PM EST
greg-709692

Seems "Someone" is sick and tired of "Politics" as usual. I second that thought. :D

  • 4 votes
Reply#12 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:26 PM EST
Blog of A Cowboy

I love the liberals who are admitting, and in droves, that they actually wanted a tyrannical left wing version of Bush/Cheney. As a result the more extreme Democrats are going to ensure "moderates" like Santorum or Palin are on the next winning POTUS ticket.

I mean seriously, I know many, many Liberals who are so disappointed with Obama's failure to actually be the socialist dictator the right's "permanent campaign" hit squad accuses him of being. The end result is Bush Cheney II and a short road to world war three in the mideast in my humble non partisan opinion.

The Democrats think Obama has been a weak force for liberal momentum and the TPGOP is pretending he has been a left wing radical policy dictator on the Bush/Cheney model. EVERYONE seems to addicted to the cult worshipper's need for a single heroic leader, defined by absolute partisan perfection, and imbued with totalitarian powers to convert his party's rhetorical intentions into police state enforced iron-fisted reality.

I like Obama, more and more, simply because everyone else hates how solidly he refuse to lean out the window of the American station wagon into the windstream of either team's failed christian arrogance and bat@!$%# crazy mob-ism.

(Also, he is the only thing standing between us all becoming Soviet style proiteriat masses in a grey populace of corporate dominance and chemically strained meat rations.)

  • 3 votes
Reply#13 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:51 PM EST
Borncorn

"moderates" like Santorum or Palin

Now that's funny.

  • 3 votes
#13.1 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:13 PM EST
Bart GruzalskiDeleted
Blog of A Cowboy

Well, yes I agree so much on those issues that I forced their slightly non-sequiter esque inclusion in my satire. If you're point is that Obama caused hormone de-regulation, meat de-regulation, pro-conservative restrictive voting laws in 48 states, or union busting regulations to serve some chimeric corporate masters, I am inclined to politely disagree.

If you think that having the White House controlled for twenty-six of the previous (pre-Obama) 38 years by arrogantly pro-corporate de-regulation / anti consumer liberty fanatics, well, we should get a beer sometime.

    #13.3 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:04 PM EST
    Oiled Pelican

    Another of Bart's comments deleted at 13.2. From what Blog wrote I surmise that Bart wrote something satirical and this offended someone in the Obamite wing of the Vine hierarchy.

    This is getting more and more interesting and looking more and more like censorship to me since truthlover was fair and usually polite and generous in his comments. I hope he'll let me know why he's been "banned" (what he wrote to me). We can all see the numerous "deleted" comments in this thread. I'll post a song in a couple of minutes. Can't find it quick enough. Back soon.

    • 2 votes
    #13.4 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:43 AM EST
    Oiled Pelican

    Anyway, it seems to be that we have reason to wonder what's happened to Bart. Here's a song that expresses this bewilderment: "something's happening here, what it is ain't exactly clear." Great song! Enjoy it. Hopefully we'll get some clarity here.

    • 2 votes
    #13.5 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:52 AM EST
    Blog of A Cowboy

    There was not a damned thing in what Bart said that was remotely offensive, or even mildly controversial. This is indeed happening a lot more - I guess until the identiy of the deleting party is a public norm on here then Ad Hominen rules the airwaves.

    • 2 votes
    #13.6 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:03 PM EST
    UNA_Lion

    Think only the seeder can delete comments here. Well, the mods can too, but they generally post why they took such actions.

    • 1 vote
    #13.7 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:09 PM EST
    Reply
    Flashypaws

    ive never put any bumper sticker on any of my cars.

    i put those little "i voted" stickers on my rear windshield though.

    • 3 votes
    Reply#14 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:39 PM EST
    Oiled Pelican

    I think truthlover covered this ambuiguity in his title: "why I scrapped metaphorically the obhama..."

    • 2 votes
    #14.1 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:44 AM EST
    Reply
    TheyreAllCrooks

    What you said may be true but when I look across the field and see the competitors seeking to replace Mr Obama, I realize how much better a POTUS he is than any of them could ever be.

    The fact of the matter is these tea party fake Christian conservatives want only to inflict their religious dogma on society, which is why all we here these days is abortion, contraceptives, gay marriage, forced ultrasounds, school prayer, anti-Sharia this or that...but not a god dammed word about jobs!

    Funny how all the GOPers are now saying, "we could do better" in reference to the improving economy. But better as we all know is nothing but a return to the failed policies that got us into this mess in the first place.

    I think I'll stick an Obama sticker on my bumper - front and back!

    • 4 votes
    Reply#15 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:36 PM EST
    Citizen Kane-473667

    I think I'll stick an Obama sticker on my bumper - front and back!

    It'll fit right in with the Bush/Cheney ones!

    • 3 votes
    #15.1 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:53 PM EST
    Reply
    oneofmany

    Obama's problem is that he is mistakenly attempting to be seen as center left moderate when the entire political paradigm has shifted right. Moderation is leftist radicalism in this climate and he should have been the leftist radical the whole time.

    • 1 vote
    Reply#16 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:03 PM EST
    Oiled Pelican

    oneofmany, I wish you were called "oneforall"--which is how democracy is supposed to work I think.

    If you read the article above, the problem troughlover and a lot of us are having with Obama isn't that one might write what you did about shifting polarities but, instead, that he promised hope and change and only gave us repackaged Bush II policies domestically, economically, and militarily. That's why a lot of us won't vote for him and I too am one of those who've had it. Obama has revealed himself to be part of the 1%. Does that make sense to you that we who look at the bottom line see him this way? What surprises us is that so many people miss the obvious.

    • 3 votes
    #16.1 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:59 AM EST
    oneofmany

    I think my point was missed. I think I should have put "leftist radical" in parenthesis up there. I don't believe Obama is a leftist or a radical at all. I find him to be conservative in most of his policies but that his "attempt" to be compromising and reasonable only lead to his slander as a socialist (Maoist, Stalinist, islamist etc etc...) by the right a kind of alienation of the left. Hence, the reason a lot of us on the left to fully support him the way we did in '08 and why this article had to be written...

      #16.2 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:42 PM EST
      Reply
      Lisafrequency

      Someone gave my H an Obama sticker and i told him I was not going to ride around with that thing on the car. He voted for Obama but, has since then come to view things differently and intends to vote for Ron Paul.

      • 5 votes
      Reply#17 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:11 PM EST
      Oiled Pelican

      I've got to admit Ron Paul is looking better and better. Did you see the Ron Paul video link in 3.10? Here again: this incredible video explaining why terrorism is caused by our current US military policies.

      • 3 votes
      #17.1 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:03 AM EST
      Reply
      Blog of A Cowboy

      Regarding Doctor Paul:

      I don't understand how terminating the existence of the Federal Reserve (you know, those crazy commmie bastards who regulate M1, M2 service our international loans and print the Almighty Dollar ) is going to be good for the economy.

      Can anyone put down the hookah long enough to kindly explain what " Doctor No" intends to replace the United States Currency with after he "Ends The Fed"?

      In a three way race between Romney, Obama and Paul he would come in fourth. I don't like being so rude, because I also WISH we had a capable non party leader with experience and sanity to drive forward from the middle, however, um, that guy couldn't coach the Lakers to victory against the South Park kids.

      But, you know, Bong Paul in ought 12, or whatever..

      • 1 vote
      Reply#18 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:20 PM EST
      Boudicea

      Maybe he'd replace it with a NON-PROFIT federal reserve. Maybe NOT a group of FOR profit banks who own our money supply, print it without authority and leave us on the hook for the devaluation caused by it. There's got to be a better way, and out of ALL the men and women in Congress, the executive branch AND the Federal Reserve, I'm certain Dr Paul can hold his own when discussing economic policy.

      • 3 votes
      #18.1 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:25 PM EST
      Oiled Pelican

      I too have questions about this, about social security, about medicare, about food stamps... but I do celebrate his remarkable foreign policy.

      I've tried substituting for truthlover in the past many comments because somehow he is "banned" and, if you look above, a lot of his comments have been deleted. I can only agree with Buffalo Springfield that "there's something happening here... what it is ain't exactly clear." Hopefully we'll all know and he'll be back. To do what I've just done, and I know what he's done on many threads, is exhausting and has my respect.

      • 2 votes
      #18.2 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:08 AM EST
      Citizen Kane-473667

      truthlover is on a "Vinecation" (suspension) but isn't "banned". They will be back as soon or we wouldn't be able to read this article. In a day or two Sir Richard Owen will add the names of truthlover and Bart Gruzalski to his list which will provide the link to the violation that resulted in their suspension/banning. You can find the list here.

      • 2 votes
      #18.3 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:50 AM EST
      Blog of A Cowboy

      Boudicea if "Doctor No" was a left wing radical I'd say you are doing fine with the logic, but he is a right wing radical and you just patently defined his policy as macro economic socialism.

      As you say, there might be a better way (I don't think it is the collapsed Soviet Union's system which you described), but until you guys have that specific little detail mapped out and peer reviewed, I for one am reluctant to give you guys the keys to the United States economy.

      You'll have to change the subject, or go Ad Hominen to get around the self destructive anti-capitalist reality of his actual sloganeering about terminating the dollar.

        #18.4 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:17 PM EST
        Blog of A Cowboy

        By the way I should probably be suspended (I probably have been and don't know it) It's not such a bad thing. If national candidates got suspended from the media for a day on the same premise, we would all be less angry about our political interactions in this country.

          #18.5 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:20 PM EST
          Boudicea

          Blog - we'll agree to disagree on Dr PAUL. Funny that there are TRUE radicals running around our government, passing laws that allow drones to monitor our activities, telling our kids what they can eat, stripping away our 4th Amendment rights with the Patriot Act, etc and It's Ron Paul who is called the "radical". I find that truly, truly amusing.

          • 3 votes
          #18.6 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:43 PM EST
          Reply
          McSpocky

          MDC-441879

          It's early and I just poured my first cup of coffee so I'm going to make this short.

          Teapuplicans have been screaming since the day he took the oath of office and the far right in congress have joined them in their insanity. In other words, the party of NO. They have tried to stop and kill any and all proposals put forth by the left with every dirty trick and lie possible.

          I'm not so disappointed with Obama as much as I'm aggravated with the obstructionists on the right. A majority of us sent him there with an agenda and the right said "NO" with no regard for the country and it's future.

          Besides, do really want one of those four idiots on the right.

          I so agree with you, MDC-441879, and you put what I was thinking into words. Therefore, I copied and posted again what you said. :)

          • 3 votes
          Reply#19 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:25 AM EST
          truthlover

          McSpocky, I'm back (don;t know why my account was disabled or all of my comments deleted above). Here's my response to the above, which I thought was a sufficient answer:

          MDC-441879, thank you for your comment. I had another reply in mind, which I thought was in my piece but will repeat here, but I think it Robert in Ohio's point is exceedingly well taken and one that I have just learned from.

          Adding to Robert in Ohio's point, which kinda blew me away (in a good way), let me repeat some of what I said in the article but in a fuller way.

          He didn't fight for the public option, against continuing the tax cuts for the rich, provide a shovel-ready jobs program (there continue to be an abundance of much needed shovel-ready jobs out there), or fight for extending the employment insurance programs. What could I possibly mean he never fought for any of these these things? What I mean is that during the first two years of his presidency he NEVER used the bully-pulpit by giving a speech (his one tremendous skill) from the oval office during prime time that explained and defended the public option, that said what a disaster continuing the tax cuts for the rich would be, argued for the available jobs program that would have jump-started the economy for the Middle Class, or explained, using the conclusions of a Bush II committee, why unemployment insurance was the best policy for America in purely economic terms (no tear jerking stuff about starving children at Christmas, but hard economic facts).

          It's not that he might have lost had he used the true facts and his oratory during prime time from the oval office that completely turns me off, it's that OBAMA DID NOT TRY. He was, as I think Krugman said (it might have been another once pro-Obama op-ed writer.

          And that comment referred to this one:

          MDC

          A small point of fact for you

          The Tea Party did not exist when Pres Obama took office so they were not screaming anything on inauguration day.

          CNBC's Rick Santelli is widely credited with launching the grassroots movement. While standing on the floor of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange on February 19, 2009

          Read more: History of the Tea Party Movement — Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/us/government/tea-party-history.html#ixzz1mH03yyV9

          And it did not become a wide ranging, influential movement for many months after that

          Maybe the ultimate candidate for the Republicans is not among the four gentlemen that you disparage

          I am disappointed with the Congress and with Pres Obama's leadership (lack of) in getting the opposing factions to work together. Everything has been wedge issues and some of those are the fault of the Republicans and some of the blame falls back to the president's leadership.

          Pres Clinton led the nation (with a Republican Senate and House) and got significant things done, including a balanced budget, so it seems that it can be done.

          • 3 votes
          #19.1 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:59 AM EST
          truthlover

          Oiled Pelican, wow you did it again. Thank you thank you thank you. I don't know why I was blocked out and I certainly don't know why so many of my comments were deleted. Does anyone?

          Again, big thanks to you Oiled Pelican.

          • 4 votes
          #19.2 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:32 AM EST
          Citizen Kane-473667

          Ya musta got spanked! LoL! Check your junk mail for an email from Newsvine Help and make sure they aren't considered "junk". You should have recieved a notice from them saying you got suspended and a link to what comment you made that caused it if you did.

          If not, contact tech support under the "Report a bug" button at the top of the page next to the banner ad and ask for tech assistance.

          • 2 votes
          #19.3 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:56 AM EST
          Blog of A Cowboy

          The Tea Party themes has ben rising through the nineties, it was factually started on December 16th 2006 by Ron Paul when he spoke denouncing the federal Reserve and advocated ending the existence of the United States Dollar as legal currency.

          The reality of the gun violence rhetoric that was flying through the air after William Kristol blackmailed McCain to accept Palin on his doomed ticket is undeniable. Obama was then and remains today, very very constrained by the nexus of complicated and sophisticated racial politics in the US.

          It is he kind of revisionist history that always succeeds to say he simply chose not to speak assertively and so he is a failure.

          My own view (and I can republish my election year articles critical of then candidate Obama if you wish to see my personal context) is that President Obama has done a very mature job of raising the White House out of the temporal pandering that previous tenants have normalized. I for one find it refreshing and I think it sad he gets toasted by both partys, but especially his own, for being the exact "anti-bush" he was elected to be.

            #19.4 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:48 PM EST
            Reply
            mstanley2265

            Typical Congressional deflect...Congressional people are in DC for unlimited terms and a President is limited to Two Terms...Congress with the Power and Authority to pass Any legislation they want if they can get a majority to vote Yea on it...including a Presidential Veto.

            But then 535 people are Much harder to pin down or expect to do a whole lot for the American Public Good. Just the usual ...get money for My state so I can get reelected and have a job with really good benefits for life. :)

            For instance Senator Mitch McConnell...he was first elected in .....1984. In 2014, he will have been in the Senate for 30 years. Anyone ready for Term Limits for Congress yet?

            Close Gitmo...Congress refused to fund....close and consolidate bases in the US....Congress refused to do, in their States....Reduce the outstanding deficit...Congress offered $1.5 trillion (what was needed and still is $4 trillion over 10 years...but that would Mean less money to their States and an increase in the tax base)....

            Congress the Tax and Spend Authority and Power in the US and by the Constitution.

            sidenote: Truthlover and all others who post articles/seeds....you may want to consider where you post or clip ...some of the articles/seeds to groups. It is taking Group moderators a lot of time looking through articles that aren't pertinent to their groups and doing housecleaning so to speak.

            • 1 vote
            Reply#20 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:47 AM EST
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